rionaleonhart: final fantasy x-2: the sun is rising, yuna looks to the future. (WILSON WROTE THIS)
Riona ([personal profile] rionaleonhart) wrote2009-04-04 09:45 am

If Ithuriel Actually Would Be Derren Brown, However, Introduce Away.


There are probably quite a few things to be said about this episode, but all I can really say about it is asdjkahjhgjdgh fandom! Fandom leaping onto the screen! I would have preferred a slightly more clear definition of 'slash', as someone unfamiliar with the term could easily go away thinking it specifically means incest, and I know that some of you were made very uncomfortable by the references, but in all I was rather delighted; I do love being made fun of, and it didn't seem mean-spirited. Although that must have been really confusing for people who are not in fandom. Part of an episode written in our language! What madness is this?

Man, I can't just make a one-paragraph entry! What else can I say? I don't want to talk about unrelated topics outside the cut, because then people who haven't seen the Supernatural episode may try to comment and catch sight of the bit beneath the cut and be spoiled.

I KNOW: I SHALL TALK ABOUT ANGELIC DERREN BROWN. (I am attempting to write the fic about the adventures of Derren and Castiel. I just don't know what to do with it.) Sorry, people with no interest in Derren. Feel free to skip the rest of this entry.

I think that Derren is a dissident angel, but not one who wants to bring about the Apocalypse; just one who does not believe in God and does not carry out his orders if he doesn't feel like it. He doesn't dislike humanity; in fact, he absolutely loves it and spends far more time than his superiors realise on Earth. He has no plans to fall, which appears to be a conscious decision in the world of Supernatural; he likes his grace just where it is, thank you very much. Losing his angelic powers would make playing with humans much less fun. Disobedience, however, is punishable by death amongst angels, so if Derren isn't going to fall he has to keep his atheism and frequent excursions to inflict angelic weirdness upon unsuspecting humans very quiet. Possibly he can manipulate other angels into forgetting or deciding to leave him alone if he lets something slip.

Also, Derren probably has sex whilst he is in human form, which I am sure angels frown upon. What I am trying to work out is how he would treat the possessing-a-human-body aspect of it, because obviously having sex using a body one has possessed raises many uncomfortable moral questions. I don't think he would ignore the host's situation entirely, but I'm not sure he would go the possessing-a-corpse route. Perhaps he would in some way blank out the host's consciousness whilst doing things with which the host would probably be uncomfortable, which is still morally questionable but not entirely reprehensible. MUCH LIKE MOST OF DERREN BROWN'S ACTUAL WORK.

Derren-as-Ithuriel is definitely going onto my list of Characters Who Totally Exist In The Supernatural Universe, Good Luck Convincing My Mind Otherwise. Delaware Singer is the only other character on that list at the moment, but I am sure it will grow. (Now I just have to hope that Supernatural does not actually introduce an Ithuriel, because if they do and he is not Derren Brown I shall cry.)

[identity profile] wanttobeatree.livejournal.com 2009-04-04 09:00 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not sure how, but I just misread Derren probably has sex whilst he is in human form as DERREN PROBABLY HAS SEX WITH ANIMALS.

[identity profile] wanttobeatree.livejournal.com 2009-04-04 09:04 am (UTC)(link)
The angels will definitely frown upon that.

[identity profile] vzg.livejournal.com 2009-04-04 09:07 am (UTC)(link)
"Why doesn't your parrot have feathers?"

"What, Figaro? He plucked them all out of himself."

"He plucked out his own feathers?! Have you taken him to a vet?"

"Several, yeah. They said he was fine."

"Birds don't normally do that, though!"

"Figaro does, when he's hungry. I caught him just staring at me once while I was eating, and then he started to slowly pluck them out. It was strange, I'll be honest."

"Your bird did a strip-tease for you?!"

"Well, it was more of a burlesque dance. There was some good music with it, too."

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[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2009-04-04 01:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Er, was there a reason he felt the need to actively deny getting sexual with his parrot?

And am I the only one reminded of the pre-coming-out interview where he got very intense and prone to explaining that yes, he did intend to marry a nice young woman someday, it was just not the right phase of his life for it?

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[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com - 2009-04-04 13:41 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] vzg.livejournal.com 2009-04-04 09:05 am (UTC)(link)
What about possessing someone who is in a relationship already and having sex with their partner? Still not entirely ethical, but at least it's less of doing something the person might really not want to do.

[identity profile] vzg.livejournal.com 2009-04-04 09:10 am (UTC)(link)
But they'd be thinking that anyway, even if it was a one-night stand! And what if he accidentally possessed someone and made them go out for "anonymous" sex and it wound up being their boss or an old classmate, who'd go, "Wow, you were wild?" and the host would go, "I— I was? I mean, I guess I did all right at that meeting/the reunion was pretty fun..." and then there would be a very uncomfortable moment for all involved (except Derren, who could very well be far away and cackling madly).

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[identity profile] uk-sef.livejournal.com 2009-04-04 09:18 am (UTC)(link)
Why assume possession is always a take control thing? Perhaps it could be a piggy-backing voyeuristic thing instead. Since it's all make-believe anyway, one gets to make up the magic rules to suit - exactly as all religious people do. So a non-coercive (while still not necessarily invited!) angel-possession might merely involve experiencing everything the human does but, at most, only be perceived by the host as a general sense of otherness being present - the sort of mental aberration to which humans are prone anyway (eg deja-vu and religion).

[identity profile] dracothelizard.livejournal.com 2009-04-04 11:52 am (UTC)(link)
If the writers were mean to the fandom, they were even meaner to themselves: I mean, they wrote themselves as a drunk with selfesteem issues, and they called some of their own writing bad.

I think that Derren Brown is better off as a Trickster than as an angel. It suits him better.

[identity profile] dracothelizard.livejournal.com 2009-04-04 12:04 pm (UTC)(link)
What about Derren-the-Trickster making Castiel believe he was an angel?

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[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2009-04-04 01:06 pm (UTC)(link)
It's very hard to write about Derren Brown and sex without getting into dubious consent territory. I mean I'm sure that actual Derren Brown has actual sex of the fully-consensual-and-not-at-all-dubious variety. It's just that he's forever shown manipulating people in a way that's very much "Oh I will naturally and easily go along with whatever you're asking of me, and even want what you're telling me, and think it's what I wanted all along" (yes, I have seen the Simon Pegg bit), and it tends to leak into any sexual situations.

So I tend to end up mentally at "The host would be a volunteer, but that's after a nice long 'You'd quite like to volunteer, and don't mind if I have it off once in a while while in your body, right?' chat with Derren."

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[identity profile] bubbles-san.livejournal.com 2009-04-04 04:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Wait, wait, what??? What's this about fandom on the screen?

I believe I may have to watch this one as well, I suppose. Two episodes in a row, too- maybe I like this show more than I thought.

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[identity profile] cryforthemoon.livejournal.com 2009-04-04 09:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Derren therefore could = Aziraphale? :D There needs to be wing!fic.

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[identity profile] bubl.livejournal.com 2009-04-04 11:52 pm (UTC)(link)
morally questionable but not entirely reprehensible. MUCH LIKE MOST OF DERREN BROWN'S ACTUAL WORK.
:)

Oh Delaware <3 You need to write that Derren & Castiel story so I can add him to my list of Supernatural characters that are Totally Real and sort of make-believe.

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[identity profile] amy-wolf.livejournal.com 2009-04-05 04:21 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't know why, but I'm now trying to lure Cenea into Derren Brown fandom by way of tempting her into writing a Take That/Derren Brown vampire thing. Do you have a version of the Robbie Williams clip that works in the UK? There could be vampires in it for you.

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